Another Conversation from February 2001
Lobo: Btw... I saw a tv show in NY on the Loch Ness Monster which built up a big monster-myth drama and then systematically disproved every shred of evidence. The best part was when the show went to other parts of the world with similar sightings. They interviewed this Lady in Canada who claimed to have shot the Lake Champlain monster. The show then explained that a giant sturgeon washed up on the shore the next day ... with bullet holes.
Jose: Hey! Maybe Nessie's a sturgeon, too! And Ogopogo! And Bigfoot! They're all sturgeons! I'll bet the Sturgeon General is running this whole thing.
Lobo: Dude, would you get serious? Ever since I saw the Ogopogo film on Unsolved Mysteries (which should, incidentally, be required viewing for all SBFC members) I've thought it was a sturgeon. I've said that before. Don't go mockin' my Sturgeon Theory, now.
Jose: How big do sturgeons get? Do you think anyone will give you a million dollars -- even Canadian ones -- for catching a stupid sturgeon? How are you going to convince them that it's Ogie?
Anyway, I have my own theory. I think it's the USS Greeneville.
Lobo: Sturgeons get huge. Giant sturgeons have been found in Lake Champlain that are almost ten feet long. And they have this snake-like swimming motion that creates big lumps in the water behind them that could be mistaken for "humps".
I'm thinking that should be worth a million Canadian, huh?
Jose: Yeah, I can see this.
"I caught Ogopogo!"
"That looks like a sturgeon."
"It is a sturgeon! Ogopogo's a sturgeon!"
"Right -- On your way."
"No, really! Check out the snake-like swimming action!"
"We're very busy right now..."
"But that makes the humps!"
"Thank you for stopping by..."
"Where's my million? This is Ogopogo! The humps prove it!"
"Security!"
Lobo: The whole get-out-of-the-water-then-get-"ushered"-back-into-the-water thing is really dumb. Was he scared or wasn't he? He was scared but not scared enough to keep from being "ushered"? Did he explain, "There's a giant prehistoric-looking Lake Monster at least twenty feet long right beneath me, hence, I am reluctant to reenter the water at this time as I will certainly be placing my limbs within striking distance of his giant razor-like teeth."?
It's a sturgeon.
Jose: Dude, you're responding to the wrong email. The guy-in-the-water one is the other one.
But even so, I think you're forgetting those grapefruit-like eyes. That really clinches it.
Lobo: Dude, I'm responding to both emails, the subject of which was my breakthroughs in proving the existence of the sturgeopogo. I don't have to respond to them separately, you know.
The grapefruit eyes reference is chilling, no?
Jose: And one of the Ogos was box-shaped. The other one was log-shaped. It didn't say which one had grapefruit eyes.
But imagine coming face-to-face with a grapefruit-eyed log or box, just right there in the water.
Lobo: It will probably sound odd to you but I think there is some weird kind of credibility to this goofus actually seeing something. I've heard of divers in lakes in California being surprised and frightened by six-foot (and longer) catfish. It seem possible to me that this guy saw a very large fish with bulbous eyes and with the visual distortions caused by the water he was confused about the size and shape.
Sturgeons have bulbous eyes, incidentally.
Jose: Most fish have bulbous eyes. He probably did see something, but any size claims are almost certainly wrong. Most people have a truly amazing ability to misjudge size by a factor of two or more, and the water would just make that worse.
So he may well have seen a sturgeon. I'm not really criticizing the sturgeon theory. Heck, it was probably a sturgeon that broke into Alcalde's house. All's I'm sayin' is that you're not likely to convince the Ogopogo reward people that Ogie's a sturgeon. That's all's I'm sayin'.
But if you do, I get a cut for agreeing with you.
Lobo: With the exception of the claim to a cut of the loot you make some good points. Take a look at this "picture" of the Ogopogo. Or this.
This stuff is considered "evidence". The show I saw on Loch Ness gave attention to the psychological studies which are being done into how phenomena of this type are perceived. One study went so far as to drag a bent pipe through the water and ask random people what they saw. Almost all said a bent pipe. One said he saw a monster-like "head", and when showed a theoretical picture of Nessie he insisted it was what he'd seen.
Now to convince the Canadians of my Sturgeon Theory and claim that prize!
Jose: I find this picture even more convincing:
But there is a problem with the sturgeon approach, even if you're right:
"The Penticton Chamber of Commerce has put a Can$2 million (about U.S.$1.3 million) price on the monster's head. Anyone who can come up with scientific proof that the monster exists -- and is not just an oversized sturgeon -- will take home the money."
So you only get the money if you can prove that it isn't a sturgeon, which, if it is, you obviously can't.
Lobo: You're a pretty mean person.
Jose: Well, now wait a minute. Hear me out. We can capture a sturgeon, then dress it up a bit. We'll put some extra humps on it, and some random appendages, and no one need be the wiser. Whaddya say? 50-50?
Lobo: This conversation is having a chilling effect on our friendship, that's what I say.
Jose: We don't even need a sturgeon, really. We could use a bent pipe. Come on, I'm giving you a chance to redeem yourself after screwing up Operation Cuchillo.
Jose: Hey! Maybe Nessie's a sturgeon, too! And Ogopogo! And Bigfoot! They're all sturgeons! I'll bet the Sturgeon General is running this whole thing.
Lobo: Dude, would you get serious? Ever since I saw the Ogopogo film on Unsolved Mysteries (which should, incidentally, be required viewing for all SBFC members) I've thought it was a sturgeon. I've said that before. Don't go mockin' my Sturgeon Theory, now.
Jose: How big do sturgeons get? Do you think anyone will give you a million dollars -- even Canadian ones -- for catching a stupid sturgeon? How are you going to convince them that it's Ogie?
Anyway, I have my own theory. I think it's the USS Greeneville.
Lobo: Sturgeons get huge. Giant sturgeons have been found in Lake Champlain that are almost ten feet long. And they have this snake-like swimming motion that creates big lumps in the water behind them that could be mistaken for "humps".
I'm thinking that should be worth a million Canadian, huh?
Jose: Yeah, I can see this.
"I caught Ogopogo!"
"That looks like a sturgeon."
"It is a sturgeon! Ogopogo's a sturgeon!"
"Right -- On your way."
"No, really! Check out the snake-like swimming action!"
"We're very busy right now..."
"But that makes the humps!"
"Thank you for stopping by..."
"Where's my million? This is Ogopogo! The humps prove it!"
"Security!"
Lobo: The whole get-out-of-the-water-then-get-"ushered"-back-into-the-water thing is really dumb. Was he scared or wasn't he? He was scared but not scared enough to keep from being "ushered"? Did he explain, "There's a giant prehistoric-looking Lake Monster at least twenty feet long right beneath me, hence, I am reluctant to reenter the water at this time as I will certainly be placing my limbs within striking distance of his giant razor-like teeth."?
It's a sturgeon.
Jose: Dude, you're responding to the wrong email. The guy-in-the-water one is the other one.
But even so, I think you're forgetting those grapefruit-like eyes. That really clinches it.
Lobo: Dude, I'm responding to both emails, the subject of which was my breakthroughs in proving the existence of the sturgeopogo. I don't have to respond to them separately, you know.
The grapefruit eyes reference is chilling, no?
Jose: And one of the Ogos was box-shaped. The other one was log-shaped. It didn't say which one had grapefruit eyes.
But imagine coming face-to-face with a grapefruit-eyed log or box, just right there in the water.
Lobo: It will probably sound odd to you but I think there is some weird kind of credibility to this goofus actually seeing something. I've heard of divers in lakes in California being surprised and frightened by six-foot (and longer) catfish. It seem possible to me that this guy saw a very large fish with bulbous eyes and with the visual distortions caused by the water he was confused about the size and shape.
Sturgeons have bulbous eyes, incidentally.
Jose: Most fish have bulbous eyes. He probably did see something, but any size claims are almost certainly wrong. Most people have a truly amazing ability to misjudge size by a factor of two or more, and the water would just make that worse.
So he may well have seen a sturgeon. I'm not really criticizing the sturgeon theory. Heck, it was probably a sturgeon that broke into Alcalde's house. All's I'm sayin' is that you're not likely to convince the Ogopogo reward people that Ogie's a sturgeon. That's all's I'm sayin'.
But if you do, I get a cut for agreeing with you.
Lobo: With the exception of the claim to a cut of the loot you make some good points. Take a look at this "picture" of the Ogopogo. Or this.
This stuff is considered "evidence". The show I saw on Loch Ness gave attention to the psychological studies which are being done into how phenomena of this type are perceived. One study went so far as to drag a bent pipe through the water and ask random people what they saw. Almost all said a bent pipe. One said he saw a monster-like "head", and when showed a theoretical picture of Nessie he insisted it was what he'd seen.
Now to convince the Canadians of my Sturgeon Theory and claim that prize!
Jose: I find this picture even more convincing:
But there is a problem with the sturgeon approach, even if you're right:
"The Penticton Chamber of Commerce has put a Can$2 million (about U.S.$1.3 million) price on the monster's head. Anyone who can come up with scientific proof that the monster exists -- and is not just an oversized sturgeon -- will take home the money."
So you only get the money if you can prove that it isn't a sturgeon, which, if it is, you obviously can't.
Lobo: You're a pretty mean person.
Jose: Well, now wait a minute. Hear me out. We can capture a sturgeon, then dress it up a bit. We'll put some extra humps on it, and some random appendages, and no one need be the wiser. Whaddya say? 50-50?
Lobo: This conversation is having a chilling effect on our friendship, that's what I say.
Jose: We don't even need a sturgeon, really. We could use a bent pipe. Come on, I'm giving you a chance to redeem yourself after screwing up Operation Cuchillo.
